Lindsay Dotzlaf

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Mastering Coaching Skills Lindsay Dotzlaf | Podcast Party Bonus: Celebrating Your Business with Kathryn Morrison

Podcast Party Bonus: Celebrating Your Business with Kathryn Morrison

My Podcast Party guest today is branding and business coach for service-based entrepreneurs, Kathryn Morrison. We’ve been a part of the same mastermind for over two years, and if you’ve got a little bit of woo in you or you’re into spiritual practices, you are going to absolutely love her.

Although we are so different, this is exactly what has attracted us to each other. Kathryn describes herself as the weird mom who’s always dancing in the kitchen, and as a coach, she’s no stranger to burning everything down to find pleasure and celebration in her business.

You’re invited to today’s Podcast Party where Kathryn and I talk about her perfect birthday party, and how she implements the habit of celebration in her life and business. Kathryn is sharing her insights on the dangers of the punishment-reward system, and the power of deciding ahead of time what you want to celebrate. 

What You’ll Learn from this Episode:

  • Our thoughts on the kinds of party guests we are.
  • How I would describe Kathryn and her life.
  • The characteristics that attract us to each other.
  • Kathryn’s thoughts on what her perfect birthday party would look like. 
  • How Kathryn navigates pain and celebration. 
  • Kathryn’s insights on the problem with business coaching.
  • How to avoid channeling toxic positivity.
  • The importance of noticing and celebrating the small wins you experience.

Listen to the Full Episode:

Featured on the Show:

  • For even more resources on making your work as a coach and success for your clients easier, I’ve created a freebie just for you. All you have to do to get it is sign up to my email list at the bottom of the home page!
  • If you want to hone in on your personal coaching style and what makes you unique, The Coach Lab is for you! Applications are open, so come and join us!
  • Join Coaching Masters here!
  • Click here to submit your questions for my next Q&A episode
  • Kathryn Morrison: Website | Instagram | Podcast | Mastermind

Full Episode Transcript:

To really compete in the coaching industry, you have to be great at coaching. That’s why every week, I will be answering your questions, sharing my stories, and offering tips and advice so you can be the best at what you do. Let’s get to work.

Hey coach, welcome to the podcast party, come on in. I am so happy you’re here. So this week I’m doing something a little bit different as you may have noticed. If you’re like, wait, it’s Monday, or it’s Wednesday, or it’s Thursday and there is a podcast today, yes, this is an entire week of podcast party bonuses.

So as I said on my episode last week, this month I am focusing the entire month on celebrations. On celebrating, why we celebrate, the importance of celebrating, and just really digging into some things that come up when we talk about celebrating and just why it is so, so, so important for us to do, especially if we’re growing businesses or really working on being the best coach possible for our clients which is, of course, my favorite thing, and also important for your clients, right?

A lot of times we love to set big goals, we love to help our clients with big goals. And it’s really important to take time along the way to celebrate, to see the small wins, to say like oh, I’m so proud of myself for achieving this piece, for doing this thing.

So this week happens to be my birthday. So for my birthday what I decided was I wanted to have a party, a podcast party. So every day this week, every day, I am interviewing people from my life who I’m very close to that I have asked to be on the podcast and we are talking all things celebrating, all things fun.

And I will say, when I first started recording these I thought, “Oh, I’m not really sure where this is going to go and this will just be fun to record.” But I’m going to tell you right now, some of these conversations are going to blow your mind. Some of them get very, very deep. And all of these people know me very well, so they tend to be a little bit more of a casual conversation.

So I just want to give a caveat, if you are listening with children, you might pop in some headphones or save this one for later because throughout this week as I’m interviewing my party guests we just talk about some adult related themes, just like you would at any adult party. So that is what’s happening, happy podcast party, come on in and join the fun.

Lindsay: Hello, I am so happy to have you here today. Welcome to the podcast party. Bringing the fun already, I love it. Thank you, thank you for doing this. I am so excited to have this conversation with you. So first just tell everybody who you are, what do you do? How do we know each other?

Kathryn: Sure. Yeah, my name is Kathryn Morrison, I’m a branding and business coach for service-based entrepreneurs. And everything I do is through a very spiritual lens. So if you’ve got a dash of woo, but you’re equally strategy and practical, I’m your jam. Lindsay and I have been together in the same mastermind for, what is it two and a half years?

Lindsay: Something like that, I’m not keeping track.

Kathryn: Three years? Yeah, it’s been a long time.

Lindsay: A long time, a couple of years at least.

Kathryn: It’s just been so fun because I remember when I first joined it, I was just starting my business and I was like, “Oh, Lindsay Dotzlaf, she’s a big deal.” And now I’m like, “Lindsay Dotzlaf is my friend.”

Lindsay: That is amazing. That kind of stuff, it always is so funny to me when people say that. I’m like yeah, I’m just Lindsay Dotzlaf, I don’t know.

Kathryn: Just a human in the world.

Lindsay: Yeah, just living my life. So okay, yes, so we’ve been in a mastermind together. And I’ve talked about this, and I think I said this in the intro, but one kind of standard I had for having people on this week is that they’re all people that I’m really close with, that I kind of know more than just like maybe they’re my client, which I interview them a lot, or coaches that I’ve worked with. But just people that I’ve spent substantial amounts of time with in my life outside of just a very more strict coaching environment.

Kathryn: Yeah, like we hang out and have text conversations while you get your manicures. Lindsay: Yes. And you tell me to get skittle nails and then I just get a French manicure and it’s a whole disappointment.

Kathryn: So good.

Lindsay: And one of my favorite things about you, actually I’ll wrap it into what I’m going to say about you as a party guest. So one thing I’ve been doing on these episodes is like telling the guests like who I think they are when they come to a party. And so I was thinking about you, and what’s interesting is I haven’t necessarily been in like a party environment, really, with you on a social level, right?

We’ve sat at many restaurants and had lots of conversations about pretty much anything you can imagine. But my impression of you, if I just think about you’re just coming to a party at my house as my friend, not under a like it’s all coaches getting together. I just think, first, you’re just going to be like the happiest person in the room. Although Mango is also coming, so you guys might compete for that.

Kathryn: We’re going to have to duke it out? Okay.

Lindsay: And you’re definitely the person I want to like sit with the whole time and just have the craziest, weirdest, most amazing conversations.

Kathryn: I feel like I would check that box, yes.

Lindsay: How would you describe yourself when you think about like being in a party? Any kind of party, it might be, maybe not a kid’s birthday party. But like any other kind of party, how do you think of yourself?

Kathryn: It’s interesting because Lindsay did tell me this question. She was like, I’m going to let you know which party guest I think you would be. And then I started thinking about like what kind of party guest I am.

And I feel like it does vary. You would never know, I mean, I don’t think this will be on video, but like I have a giant rainbow background behind me, I’m like very big when I’m with my circle, right? Like my circle of people, but I’m actually quite introverted.

So I think if I was in a party and I didn’t know anybody, I could play the game of energetically cloaking myself and you would never know, right? But I think if it was like a party and it’s my circle of people, I’m going to be the loud one. I’m going to have a very boisterous laugh. I love that we’re both, so Lindsay and I are both instructors in our coaches mastermind and I think someone was near my breakout room and they could just hear my laugh. They were like, “Well, Kathryn is next door coaching. She’s just laughing really loud as usual.” So probably just loud and happy.

Lindsay: I love that.

Kathryn: And weird. I think you got it. Lindsay: Yeah, a little weird, like in the best possible way.

Kathryn: Yeah.

Lindsay: Yeah, that’s one of my favorite things about you. We’ll dive into that, we’ll talk a little bit about the weird.

Kathryn: Perfect.

Lindsay: And what’s funny about the word weird is my kids and I just, speaking of celebrating, this is a word that we celebrate. I have like embedded that in them since they were very little, that just like weird is so good and of course you want to be weird. And so that’s just something that I think I’ve taught them this, but we’re just drawn to people that you’re like, oh, there’s something different about you and I have to know about it.

Kathryn: Yeah, I love it. You know, it’s interesting, I was thinking because you prepped me for the party guest part. And I was like, who was I? I got to thinking about our dynamic and us at a party and I realized that you’re probably the friend that I have that’s closest to my husband. Like my husband has got like a much calmer energy, he’s very grounded. And I’m like always dancing.

Like the other day my six year old had a friend over for a play date and he was like, “My mom is so weird, she’s just always dancing.” Like I’m just always singing and dancing in the kitchen. And they’re just like mommy’s just doing mommy stuff.

Lindsay: Just doing mommy stuff.

Kathryn: But Dan is always down. He likes to be around it and I find his presence very grounding. And I feel the same way about my relationship with you, is like you have just such a calm, grounded energy to you that’s like really nourishing.

Lindsay: It’s interesting to hear you say that. As you were talking I thought, what’s funny about that is I think that I actually, like yes, I think that’s probably my norm. That’s kind of my normal energy, that’s my coach energy, that’s kind of like what I teach, all of that. And I also think sometimes I will step into a room and like fill whatever role needs to be filled.

So like in my family, like at my house the rest of the humans in my house are fairly quiet, my husband is pretty reserved. So I think I actually take on a little bit of the, like I’m the mom who dances in the kitchen that my kids are like, “Oh, here we go.” And my younger daughter will just be like, “Okay, but my friend is coming over. Can you just like not do that right now?” I’m like, don’t tell me how to live.

Kathryn: Yeah. Well, but I think that’s why we get along, is I feel like there’s almost like an inner and an outer world. And I actually think that there is that piece of you, right? And I feel like we sort of, how do I say it? We sort of like crisscross each other in a way that like really complements each other.

Lindsay: Yeah, I think that piece of me that embraces that part is like attracted to that in you, right? Because I see it so outwardly in you and I love it. Yes, give me more.

Kathryn: Mutual love.

Lindsay: That’s right. Okay, so all the podcasts I’m doing this week, we’re talking all about celebrations, why it’s important, and kind of all over the place from celebrations in your life, whether it’s like celebrating your birthday to celebrating, because you’re a coach and entrepreneur, like celebrating in your business celebrating wins.

So I’m curious, what is your favorite way? So just in your personal life, maybe it’s your birthday, something like that. What’s your favorite way to celebrate? What’s like your perfect birthday party?

Kathryn: My perfect birthday party. Well, I think it sort of goes along with the weird, loud party guest thing. The probably best party I’ve ever had, when I turned 10,000 days old, which is a thing.

Lindsay: What?

Kathryn: It’s like 27, this was like now 10 years ago, but it was like 27 and a third I think.

Lindsay: I missed it.

Kathryn: Yeah, you missed it. You should have been my friend. I’m about to tell you about the party.

Lindsay: Oh my gosh.

Kathryn: So the best party I ever had would probably be that, like I would just have a different version of it now probably for my 40th. But when I turned 10,000 days I decided I wanted to have a big party. And so I rented like a petting zoo, and this was before I had children. So this was an adults only party. I had a petting zoo, I had sumo suits, I also had like high-end cocktails.

It was like the night before my party and we were at like a fancy cocktail bar and I just invited the bartender. And he came and was like slinging cocktails. A chicken from the zoo like laid an egg and he made a cocktail with it. And so I think that’s sort of the vibe, just like a little bit fancy and high-end with like the cocktails, but just a little bit wacky. Lindsay is like, “What is happening?”

Lindsay: No, this is what I’m thinking, everyone’s like, “Oh yeah, I see why you like to be around her.”

Kathryn: And I rented people, like I hired them on TaskRabbit to just dress up as characters. So I had a Woody come, like people were just like, “I can dress up as this, I have this costume.” And I just paid them to come and talk to people.

Lindsay: Okay, that got me. So you paid them to dress up? So I need to know what, you mean like Woody from Toy Story?

Kathryn: From Toy Story, yeah. Like people could bid on the job, it was like a TaskRabbit job. I think this still exists. But like people would just like, I think I paid like 30 bucks an hour or something. And they were like, “I have this Halloween costume, I could come and dress up as this character.” And I just paid them to come to my party as a character.

Lindsay: Literally the best thing that I’ve ever heard in my entire life. And I can’t imagine the characters, not even like the characters that they were dressed up as, but just the characters of humans who would want to do that job that came to your party and just entertained people.

Kathryn: I’m still friends with one of the guys, it’s very funny.

Lindsay: Who else was there?

Kathryn: So I know that’s a little bit of a deviation from you’re like, how do you like to celebrate day to day.

Lindsay: No, this is perfect. I think this is like even, I mean, yes, this is very detailed and one specific party, but I’m sure that that thinking.

Kathryn: It’s a lane into my brain.

Lindsay: Yeah. But I do want to like side note, what other characters were there, I need to know?

Kathryn: Okay, so there was Prince. Prince was there.

Lindsay: Oh yes.

Kathryn: Woody was there. And then there was, honestly, there was a woman that came and she was so like, I don’t even remember, she kind of hid. She came to the party but then like didn’t want to be part of it. And I don’t even remember what character she was. And I just remember being very disappointed in that TaskRabbit. But Prince and Woody nailed it.

Lindsay: She was like, “This is weird, give me my money, I’m out of here.”

Kathryn: It was so interesting. I mean, and maybe she bid on it because she was like, “I want to get out of my comfort zone.” But then once she was at this party with like zoo animals and like a ton of people, and like sumo suits, and bartenders making cocktails from chicken eggs she was like, “Get me out of here.”

Lindsay: Poor thing. She was probably scared of chickens or who knows what was happening? That poor woman, probably still traumatized.

Kathryn: Oh, it was so good.

Lindsay: And did you throw this party for yourself?

Kathryn: Yeah.

Lindsay: Because I’m about to throw myself a party and I feel really excited about it. And I’m like, wait, is this weird? And I’ve just decided it’s not weird, I’m so excited.

Kathryn: It’s not weird. And if you need to have a separate call later about party planning, we could do that.

Lindsay: I love it. I had not considered hiring people to just dress up as random characters, but it’s now on the list.

Kathryn: But why not?

Lindsay: Why not? Okay, so now I’ve forgotten all the things I was going to ask, that just like really threw me off. I love it. So what about, that’s in your personal life. Is that another, like do you do it for like 20,000 days old?

Kathryn: I guess you could. I think, for me, I just decided when I was like it’s the only day in your whole life that you’ll change digits again, right? Because if you think about that, 27 years old and that’s 10,000 days, no one’s going to live to be 100,000 days. So I was like, this is a big milestone, I have to celebrate it.

Lindsay: Yeah, that sounds like exactly like something you would do. I just love it. I can’t wait to come to your 40th birthday party.

Kathryn: But I think in general, it’s sort of like that was an amplified version of I just think life is a celebration and like to be alive is a celebration. So one of the things that Lindsay, Lindsay mentioned we’d be talking about celebrations so I was thinking about it a lot yesterday and I was like, I feel like I’ve just set my life up to be, yeah, I don’t know if I would use – I’ve been thinking a lot about pleasure, like I do a lot of pleasure work with clients.

But I feel like I’ve just created a life that is just like soaked in pleasure and celebration. And for all the things that I can control, I also have three kids, so there’s a lot of chaos, right? But then also, can you find pleasure and celebration in the chaos?

Lindsay: I am obsessed with this. And I think it is one of my biggest things probably that I’ve learned from just being around you is the way you, because this is true, like what you just said, I see it. You’ve never said these exact words to me, but I would have described something very similar.

If I was just like, oh, this is just like who Kathryn is in her life, I would have said almost those exact words because you just exude it. And so I’m curious, have you always been like that or is it something you’ve had to learn?

Kathryn: I think it was always the core essence of who I was, which so much of what we do in coaching is like bringing people back to who they are. So there were like a lot of layers that I had to sort of unwind. But I always had a knowing that that was my essence, right? Like, I mean, I had my 10,000 days party way before I found coaching. I had no thought work or mind management, and I’ll be honest, my mental health was a little… Right?

But that was still sort of, it’s like a thread that I’ve just carried through. I do think, especially over the last few years I’ve gotten a lot into like energy work and Tantra and understanding how to like actually clear your energy and just come back to that essence.

And I feel like a lot between mindset work and like those spiritual practices, you said the word exude and it is. It’s just something that like exudes from me, it radiates from me. And I think that’s been really great just for my day to day life. But then also, it’s like what I teach clients. So it’s like really nice that people, they come into my field and they can immediately feel that.

Lindsay: Oh yeah. And I think it’s one of the fun things just about being around you in general. Just the way you interact with the world is fun for me to just be around.

Kathryn: Thanks.

Lindsay: You’re welcome. So can you give us examples, we’re just going to stay with this for a minute because I love it.

Kathryn: Okay.

Lindsay: And I think one thing that I talk about sometimes on the podcast is how, not necessarily related to celebrations, but just in general how coaching isn’t just like be happy all the time. You know, the goal of it isn’t just to be in positive emotion, positive energy, however you would describe it.

Kathryn: Yeah.

Lindsay: And so I’m curious, and I know that you would agree with that. So I’m curious, how does that match with what you just said? Like when you’re having a bad day or you’re feeling not great how does that, I don’t know, like how do you reconcile that with what you just said?

Kathryn: Yeah, I mean, I think it’s interesting. And it’s fascinating, I’ve done like a bunch of somatic training now and I actually came into this mindset through somatic work. But a lot of times when you’re doing somatic work and someone has chronic pain, the way a lot of somatic practitioners will help them is they’ll be like, “And what else is true in your body?”

And they’ll help the person like lead to what other sensations are there. Not to say that the pain isn’t there, but to also say but what else is true, right? To like just take you out of like, and this thing really sucks, but like what else is true there?

So I think, I mean, I don’t know. Between like everything that’s happening in the in the outside world and having three kids and all of that, there is so much like chaos and just density. And I allow myself to feel that, but then there is also always like, and still there’s life and still there’s celebration. If we just zoom out over human history, like there’s people dying right now and there’s people being born. And there’s people getting married right now and there’s people getting like really painful divorces, right?

Like right now in this very moment that we’re listening, all of that is true. And I think when we can expand ourselves to just be open to feeling, like when we’re willing to feel all of the pain that is just part of being a human in this world, like we can hold but then also at the same time be like and also there’s still joy. I feel like it’s not something that’s natural for the human brain, but you can train it to hold that, I guess is how I would answer that.

Lindsay: Yeah, I love that. And actually before we started recording I shared with you that last night I woke up in the night, I was having muscle spasms in my neck. And this morning I thought, “Oh, this is terrible. I have to cancel the podcast, I can’t do it.”

And I realized as I was about to text you and say like hey, I am so sorry, you know, whatever. I realized like wait a minute, no, I have the capacity to hold space for, yep, I have this pain in my neck. I feel pretty good as we’re recording, but I feel a little just weird because I was awake in the night.

And, you know, it’s holding that space for like, yeah, I don’t feel 100%, and I still can get on here, record this amazing podcast, have fun with Kathryn. And I can still feel it in my neck. Like they’re both present in this moment.

Kathryn: True, right now.

Lindsay: Yeah.

Kathryn: Yeah, and I think it’s toxic positivity when we try to act like the neck thing isn’t there. Or like if my kids are just being, I have two boys and I grew up one of three girls and the boy energy is new for me. And the constant wrestling and everything that takes place, and it’s like my nervous system has, you know, experiences.

Lindsay: Experiences, yes, that’s one way to put it.

Kathryn: And so can I like have that and be like, “I wish that they would stop doing that,” and then at the same time be like but also there is something, if I take the time to look for it there is something sweet that I like about it too.

Lindsay: Yeah.

Kathryn: But it’s like we have to take that extra step with ourselves. The same way you’re doing with your neck. You’re like, yeah, I can still hold space for a podcast about celebration.

Lindsay: Yes. Yeah, I think that was the biggest thing, right? I was like, if it was just maybe I was getting on here interviewing a client or it was in my mind like a more serious this is what we’re doing, versus no, we’re supposed to be celebrating, I’m not supposed to be feeling this way.

That’s how I was thinking, right? Like I have to show up in a different way, everything has to be perfect, all the stars must align for this to go as planned. Instead of, no, I can be a little uncomfortable and it’ll actually be a really good distraction, which so far so good.

Kathryn: Love it.

Lindsay: Okay, so how do you take this, because you work with entrepreneurs, because you are a business coach, how do you take this theory and either in the way you practice it or the way you teach it, which I’m guessing is probably similar, and apply it to your business?

Kathryn: Yeah. Well, the best way I’ve thought to describe it so far is I feel like there’s a problem with a lot of business coaching, which is that we treat it like it’s, same with our tax system, right? It’s like, well, this is a business expense and it’s like we’re going to compartmentalize everything.

But I primarily coach energy, right? So I’m just like, well, your energy is your energy is your energy. And so if you are like, if you have a pattern in your personal life that’s like affecting your ability to show up in your business fully, I want to be able to look at that with a client, right?

And so I think one is thinking about the person holistically, just as like I’m always looking at like what is their core essence? And then what are their patterns? And then there’s going to be, oftentimes the way we do one thing is the way we do anything. And I think the other piece just this past year, Lindsay has been with me during a big transition. I completely blew up like my entire business this past year.

I had like a mastermind that was like very, it was good, like my clients got amazing results. But I was just like, wait, it’s not a reflection of my unique work in the world though, right? So I blew up a mastermind that was making hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars per year. And I was like, we’re going to have the Pleasure and Precision mastermind where we specifically focus on your business growth always has to come from an expansion in your pleasure.

And so we just kicked off the first round of that and like they have their business plan and I’m working with them on business strategy. But they also create a pleasure plan, and that’s where we’re looking at like all facets of what pleasure means for them. I have a course on sexual energy in my mastermind portal. So it’s a little bit more, I mean, I guess what kind of party guest was I? Like a little weird.

Lindsay: A little weird.

Kathryn: And out there. And I’m just like, I’m in.

Lindsay: Yeah, I love it. It’s actually been really fun watching you. I’m sure it’s probably more fun for me than it is for you at times burning something down and doing something new.

Kathryn: But I think this goes back to, can you find pleasure in all of it, right?

Lindsay: Right.

Kathryn: So it was like I blew everything up and I let everything wash away. And then I was just like, ooh, and now I get to rebuild. So yes, I think pain and pleasure, we can rock them.

Lindsay: It’s so funny because, and I’ve shared this with you privately. But watching you do this, and I think this is true for many people. I’ve seen this happen so many times where it’s like when you’re the one doing it in your mind, even the way you described it is like I burned the whole thing down and like started over.

And I think because I have known you now for a while and we’ve become close, to me it’s like that’s who you are. So when you said this is what I’m doing, it was like, “Yeah, what do you mean? Isn’t that what you have always done? I don’t understand.”

Kathryn: Yeah, and I think for a lot of my audience, I think what happened was like I cut away everything that wasn’t me and I just brought with me everything that was a direct reflection of the work I wanted to do in the world.

And so I think, one, I think it became a lot more spiritual. And I just went full steam ahead and I was like, “I’m going to run this as fast as I can and that’s going to bring the people who are like in my audience already and they’ve been waiting for me to do this, that’s going to bring them closer faster. And the people who, like there are some people, because I used to do the employee to entrepreneur transition. And there were some people that were like, “Kathryn has gone off the rails.”

Lindsay: Yeah, because I think some of your clients are like in the tech world, in just all different industries that might not be even woo adjacent.

Kathryn: It’s so fascinating though, because when I switched over the mastermind, one of my clients that came with me, she’s a tech product marketing consultant that like her brand on the outside, you would never know. She sells to like big name tech companies and she’s in my mastermind where she’s like, all right, she was talking about her self-pleasure practices. I was like, I’m in.

Lindsay: So good, I love it. And I think because I have, I’ve never worked with you as a coach, right? Like I’ve never been your client, so I don’t see, I’m not in that part of your world. I only know you, I mean I hear you talk about your business, but then I know you just more personally. So for me, when you describe it, it’s like, yeah, like this is just who you are. I don’t understand, what’s the thing? And so I think that’s a good thing though, right?

Kathryn: Yeah.

Lindsay: That’s like you have just become completely aligned with who you are, embracing all the “weird” parts, and let’s go, let’s bring them in.

Kathryn: It’s been fun.

Lindsay: Okay, so one thing that I talk about a lot, and especially for my clients, because a lot of times we attract clients like us, right? And I know that a lot of my clients don’t like to celebrate along the way. Like they like to put their head down and just like work hard until they hit the goal and then they get to celebrate.

What do you think is the importance of not doing that, right? Of like noticing all the small wins along the way, of celebrating. And when I say celebrate, I just mean basically like enjoying the journey.

Kathryn: Yeah, well, I don’t think I made this up, but what you don’t celebrate, you don’t integrate. I can’t remember where I first heard that, or maybe I made it up, I don’t know. I just say it sometimes and I’m like, I don’t know who to attribute it to. So if this audience knows, please come find me and tell me.

But like that really clicked for me. And it was like I was the same way when I first started my business. It was like until I got to the goal of like accomplishing the money goal, I wouldn’t celebrate. And I think there’s the what you don’t celebrate, you don’t integrate. And that’s from like a sort of mindset, but I think this audience is all coaches so that’s something that we can all hook into pretty easily.

But the other thing from a business strategy perspective, because even before I had a coaching business I worked in business development, scaling tech companies by like millions of dollars for many years, right? And money is always a lagging indicator, right?

Lindsay: Oh, that’s so good.

Kathryn: Yeah, so one of the things –

Lindsay: Say that again. Hold on, hold on, you have to just say that again, let everybody hear. I don’t talk a ton about money, right? Because I don’t focus on just like making money, building your business that way. But everyone, most of the people that are listening are coaches who work for themselves who are like, “No, no, no, I’m doing the things, why isn’t the money, why isn’t it happening?”

Kathryn: Yeah. And money is a lagging indicator. So this is not even the coaching world, it’s just like anything in business. When I was like running departments for these tech companies it was always like we had a marketing plan, right? And we would see downstream, sometimes it took months, we would see like was this effective? Are we seeing the lagging indicator of money to show us the strategy that we’ve put in place?

And I think one of the biggest differences for entrepreneurs is we get very emotionally invested and tied up in what’s happening. And then when we don’t understand that money is a lagging indicator and we think that like, “If no money equals bad, if no money equals not celebrate.”

Then we put ourselves into this binary of like it’s either bad or it’s good. Versus it’s always coming and I’m building it there. But then when we don’t trust that, that actually messes like our thoughts, our energy, all of that can start to impact our marketing and selling. And then it keeps, it actually keeps the money further away.

So I guess you were like, I know you’re not a business coach, but I think that’s just where I go because that’s what I coach with with my clients so often. But I guess you could apply that to any goal, right? It could be the weight on the scale. It could be any sort of goal that you’re working towards, there’s going to be an end result. But you always want to look for what are the leading indicators that I want to look for?

And you could look at that as like habits you put in place. You could look at that as like, like for a lot of my clients because I do a lot with energy and frequency, like I help people figure out what that is and that’s what I teach them to celebrate. Like if they’re staying in that, we know that the money will come because that’s where money comes from, from like the process, right?

So it’s like I have to take the time to teach people what else they could be celebrating, instead of just like what our society teaches us, the amount of money in your bank account, what the number on the scale, I’m trying to think of what else? What else do people, what other goals?

Lindsay: Well if you apply it to what I teach, right? It’s like sometimes my clients, especially in the Coach Lab, a lot of coaches in the Coach Lab are newer coaches and they’ll get very frustrated and come to me like, “This isn’t working. I have this client, I don’t know what to do.” Right? And they’ll watch the modules, or I’ll coach them on the call.

And then they’ll come back and say, “I tried it, it didn’t work.” Right? And I’m like, “How many times did you try it? I need more information, what’s happening?” And they’re like, “No, no, no, I tried it one time.” And I’m like, no, it’s not magic, right?

We’re working with humans who are all different, who are going to have their own timelines, who, you know, whatever it is. Like this isn’t a perfect equation where you just plug in one number and the answer spits out. Sometimes, yeah, it might happen quickly. Sometimes you might just have to keep going and keep trying it until it works.

Kathryn: Yeah, yeah. Well, and I think one thing that might be interesting for people to hear is like when I was earlier on in my business, I’ve always had a habit of like buying myself things for celebration, right?

So I think it was like when I was first starting the 10k month was such a big deal. So the first few 10k months I bought these earrings that I really loved. And then I think it was like, I forget if it was my first 100k or 200k launch, I was like, “Oh, and then I’m going to get myself a bigger thing.” And it was sort of like a totem to celebrate the person I had become.

And more recently whether or not, because I think you’re always wanting to set bigger goals to have yourself grow, right? And so I was like, oh, rather than not reward myself until I get to this insane goal that’s like way bigger than where I’m at, I’m setting the goal to help myself grow. Like I’m always looking at like who am I in that process?

And if I show up in the launch or if I show up where I’m so proud of myself no matter where the number ends, like that is when I reward myself. Versus like I phoned it in, like I abandoned myself, I pretended to be someone I wasn’t, right? Like those are all things that I’m like, let’s not. I want to think about who I want to be and celebrate that.

Lindsay: Yes. Yeah, and I think that that is probably one of the biggest celebrations, right? I did a very similar thing, and I’ve talked about this on one of the podcasts that will come out this month. But just about like why we celebrate and how and just giving examples of how I have celebrated in the past versus how I celebrate now.

And I did that same thing. I would buy something to be like, “Oh, this is going to like symbolize this growth.” It’s like a marker in my mind, right, of like oh, when I look at this thing I will remember I achieved this thing. And after a few times of doing that, it just was like I don’t think it’s serving its purpose, right. And I think it’s because I just wasn’t doing it for the right reasons and it felt very much like a punishment or reward, right?

Kathryn: Yeah.

Lindsay: So if I didn’t hit the goal, and there was only like one measurable goal, like maybe the money or something. Not all the other things that we could measure along the way. But just like did I hit the one end thing? And if I didn’t, then nope, you don’t get the thing. If I did, then okay, you get the thing. And that for me, it was just not, it is not motivating. It mostly ended up feeling not great.

And I would also notice that I didn’t look back at it and think, oh, remember when I did this thing and I bought myself these earrings or whatever it is. And so now I’ve started, I have some things that I kind of implement along the way.

So like during a launch I will implement certain things as markers of like no matter how you’re doing, I’m proud of you. No matter what is happening here, this is all growth no matter what it is. And that has been just like a game changer for me. It’s very different than just the kind of like punishment reward system. It’s like, no, these are just things we do along the way because it’s who we are now.

Kathryn: Right. So I’m curious for you, what are the things you do along the way?

Lindsay: So most of them tend to fall along the lines of more like taking care of myself during a launch, during anytime I’m working on a big goal. Because that was something I used to put off. It would be like, okay I have to, very similar to how my clients think sometimes, very like head down, have to hit the goal, just keep working, just keep going.

Instead of during a launch, during the week of my launch I’ll schedule, you’re going to love this actually. I think I may have actually heard this from you for the very first time. Did you talk about dry brushing one time?

Kathryn: Yes.

Lindsay: Okay. So, I don’t know, you posted about it.

Kathryn: Just one of the many weird conversations Dotzlaf and I had, it feels.

Lindsay: Listen, I took that in and I was like, oh, that sounds like something I would like. So I found a massage place near me, like a very nice spa, whatever. And so during a launch I book this, it’s like a two and a half hour, it’s called a something ritual. And it’s like dry brushing and a massage.

And it’s so much more about, it’s not about like, oh, I’m like doing this thing so I get a massage. It is this is just how I take care of myself now during big times of growth, right? During times of like big growth, even when I don’t hit the goal. Because sometimes not hitting the goal is also just like the most painful growth you can have.

Kathryn: Yeah.

Lindsay: Instead of just like, oh, everything’s going great so I earned this massage.

Kathryn: So now I get something, yeah, I love that.

Lindsay: And the biggest learning in it for me has been prioritizing it, right? Like not canceling it, not calling and canceling that thing when the launch isn’t going as planned or when I need to, you know, thinking like, “Oh, no, no, no, if I just like focus more on these emails, then it’s going to turn things around.” Or, you know, anything like that.

Of course I make sure everything is taken care of ahead of time. But I just always notice that urge, nope, I shouldn’t be doing this today. And it’s just interesting because for me that is always the growth. Kathryn: Yeah, I love that. It’s almost like having just a list of non-negotiables, right? Like I don’t negotiate with myself, this is just always how I take care of myself.

Lindsay: Yes. Yeah, and so thank you, something else I learned from you. Mostly just the dry brushing because when you said it I was like, “Oh, I don’t know what that even is, but I’m going to look into it.”

Kathryn: Everybody go look it up on the Googs.

Lindsay: Oh yeah, it’s so good. Now I own my own dry brush. I mean, I’d much prefer it when someone else does it to me, but that’s fine.

Kathryn: My little kids will sometimes, like we sometimes have like on Sunday nights we’ll do like massage nights before bedtime. And like I’ll give them little massages and they’re like, “Oh Mommy, now it’s your turn.” They’ll like get the dry brush, I’m like, yes.

Lindsay: Oh, that’s good. I hadn’t thought of that. My daughter loves to play with my hair, so maybe we need to incorporate more of just here’s the dry brush, here’s some lotion, let’s get to it. So funny. And then when she says, “Okay, my turn.” I’m like, “I’m so tired though, you just really wore me out.”

Kathryn: Yeah, tomorrow.

Lindsay: Tomorrow. I’m just kidding. I’m a good mom, mostly. Okay, so let’s see, what haven’t we talked about? What else? Is there anything else that comes to your mind when you think about celebrating or just things that come up for your clients that we haven’t gotten into?

Kathryn: I mean, I would say, just to like double click into it, to like have an idea of the little things along the way, like what you would call your leading indicators of what you want to celebrate.

It’s funny, I actually didn’t think about it until just a minute ago, but it’s like I run a branding program and every Friday we have a weekly celebrations thread. And it’s designed to be like, and in the copy I’m like, “Did you go to a networking event and you showed up in a way that you never showed up before? You celebrate.” Right?

Like you have to teach yourself like what are the things that I’m going to choose to celebrate? Like what is my growth? Like I posted a thing that was scary, right? Like if you have your list of like these are all the things that I’m so proud of how I’m showing up, I’m so proud of how I’m taking care of myself, like those are more worthy of celebration than any arbitrary marker in the world. And so I think getting clear, like every single person is going to have a different list of that.

I guess the other thing that comes to mind, I’m just remembering this, Lindsay and I did a New York City day recently where we just hung out and we gallivanted around the town.

Lindsay: Literally just aimlessly walked around the streets and just followed our, I don’t know, intuition.

Kathryn: Right. Which I actually think is another thing, it’s like expanding what you think the definition of celebration is. Because it might just be like, oh, I’m going to book a massage, or I’m going to buy a bottle of champagne, or I’m going to do something that just seems like just generally like where society is like, that’s what we do to celebrate, that’s like a thing to reward yourself or whatever, right?

Lindsay: Yeah.

Kathryn: But when I think about the day that we had where it was like we were literally just like wandering. Like we just went into shops that we liked. And just to have a whole block of time that we literally intentionally didn’t schedule, like that was so nourishing.

Lindsay: Yes.

Kathryn: And so like to ask your brain to sort of break itself of like what are the things I’ve been taught mean celebration versus like what actually would mean celebration for me? And that might mean like I go and sit on a park bench for like four hours with literally nothing else. And that is like more celebratory for me than the finest glass of champagne in the world.

Lindsay: Yes. Yeah, and you know I love a good glass of wine. But usually that’s just like because I want it, it’s not for celebration. And one thing I talk a lot about with my clients is in my mastermind we have an in-person event and they pick a project and they work on it, right? So they plan the whole thing.

One of the last things I have them do, so they have it all planned out, they’ve maybe started on it. They know when they get home, like here’s my first step. I have them plan, right? Like actually walk away with a whole plan, like A to Z, it’s going to happen, this is how we do it.

And one of the last things I have them do, which always throws them for a loop is like, okay, now look at that timeline. Decide right now which parts, where are you going to celebrate? Like which parts? It might be that literally you get home and in two days you sit down and you’re like, “Whoa, why did I even pick this thing? This is a big project, why am I working on this?” And you feel overwhelmed.

You get to look at your plan and say, “Oh, no, no, no, I already decided, here’s the first step.” I would suggest just celebrating after that first step. Even if that means taking five minutes at your desk, on your couch, wherever you are, and just breathing it in, soaking it in. Okay, I did the thing, I took the first step, I’m on my way to creating, you know, whatever this thing is.

And I think for me, that type of celebration is almost more powerful than the, you know, like we were saying earlier, like buying the earrings, buying the purse, like just spending money buying something. Because it’s just a reminder of like just stop and breathe and remember that you did this. You did the thing, it’s amazing. Even if the big goal feels way far off, who cares? Like you’re on your way, you took the first step.

Kathryn: Yeah. And I mean I think there’s probably, even those first steps, if they were to like zoom back, right? To be like, “Wait, what?”

Lindsay: Yes.

Kathryn: I’m in this like top mastermind for coaches like sharpening their skills and I have a project. Like all of that is worthy of just like I have become the person who is doing this thing.

Lindsay: Yeah, I love that. I recently wrote out ideas for a podcast that I’m going to record, but I think about this often. I used to, okay, I don’t know why, but sometimes this blows people’s minds. So I don’t know if I’ve told you this, it might blow your mind. But I used to backpack a lot. And when I tell people that they’re like, “You? No.” People that just know me now think that’s like the weirdest thing.

So I used to backpack and I think that there are just so many analogies we could use when it comes to that and like going after a goal, like reaching a goal, right? Like climbing a mountain is so hard. If it’s a big mountain and you know I’m doing this all day, I’m getting to the top, I’m not stopping. And it feels so slow, right? Because you’re usually not running up the mountain, you’re like walking, you’re like this is way slower than I would walk in real life. Because it’s hard, it’s hard work. Like every step is hard.

And I just remember at one point someone I was with, he was very experienced. He was older than me, he was very experienced at it. And he said the most important thing you can do while you’re hiking, is to stop often and look behind you. Look around and look behind you because otherwise you just are looking down the whole time. And you might get to the top of the mountain and, yeah, the view might be incredible and it’s amazing.

But you also might realize, first of all, there are safety reasons to do it. But also you might realize, my view the whole time was my feet, right?

Kathryn: Yeah.

Lindsay: Because you’re literally looking at your feet because, especially most of the backpacking I did was in the Rockies, so it’s very, you know, the terrain is like pretty rugged and you have to look at your feet to make sure you don’t trip, to make sure that you’re stepping in the right place.

And so do you want the whole day of hiking, right, maybe who knows how long, 12 hours of hiking, do you want the memory to be, “Oh, I looked at my hiking boots.” And I think about that, that’s probably 20 years ago that he told me that, And I think about it all the time. It’s so pertinent to exactly what we’re talking about.

Kathryn: Yes, I love that analogy.

Lindsay: And of course there are safety reasons where it’s like also you might get to the top and realize I have no idea how I got here because I don’t know what it looks like going the other way, right? Depending on the type of trail or whatever that you’re on, it’s just important to look behind you and say like, “Oh yeah, this is what it looks like. Let me remember this thing.”

Kathryn: Oh, they probably have the all trails app now. My sister and her family, they like hike like maniacs. And I recently, I was like I can’t believe what’s going on. Like the technology is amazing.

Lindsay: Yeah, anybody that does that now and uses an app, listen, I have lots of thoughts. That is cheating. You have to get lost at least once. You have to be terrified for your life that there’s probably a bear around the corner and you’re lost and you have no idea what’s going on. Because then when you find your way, it just feels so delightful.

Kathryn: You must suffer first.

Lindsay: That’s right. See, I can be weird too, it’s fine.

Kathryn: I love it.

Lindsay: Okay, so I just love this. I’m so happy that I invited you here. I think you have such a unique perspective on celebrations just in general, in your life.

Kathryn: I mean we’re alive. We’re alive, that’s a reason to celebrate.

Lindsay: Yes, I love that. What else? Is there anything else? Anything you want to add? Anything you want to talk about? Tell them about what you teach. We’ve talked about it a little bit, but is there anything else you want to say about that?

Kathryn: Yeah, I can talk about what I teach. And I think this sort of folds into it, but like if we’re on the topic of celebration, a lot of what, like I run a branding program. And so we focus on like how you’re presenting yourself online. But there’s always the internal aspect too, of like your environment, how much your environment matters, right?

And so I have an entire module in this program on like your office space and designing an office space that’s like you’re the seed that’s going to grow in this space. Have you created a space that’s like the most delicious soil that you like can’t wait to get in there and work from, right?

And so I think another way to celebrate yourself, and this was something, it’s so funny because this was like years before I had a branding program. But like aesthetics and feeling good about the space I’m in has always been deeply important to me.

I’m like the nerd who’s had interior design magazines like for years and I’m not an interior designer. And I remember when I started my business, I just like went out, and at that point I didn’t have a lot of money. So I did like estate sales or Target or whatever the thing was. And it was just like, how can I treat myself? Like I’m so proud of myself for starting this business, how can I create a space that’s really unique to me that feels good to work in every day?

Which I guess is like a little bit, it’s different than like celebration of sort of like a milestone, but I think it feeds into what we were talking about. It’s like life is celebration or just like an honoring of yourself all the way through. And I think that environment is such an important part of that, especially like for a lot of, I know Lindsay and I are moms, and I don’t know about anyone else listening. But as a mom of three small children, there’s a lot of rooms in my house –

Lindsay: That don’t feel delightful 100% of the time.

Kathryn: That I’ve just sort of like surrendered to the chaos, right?

Lindsay: Yeah.

Kathryn: And I think honestly, like my office space is actually my sanctuary because even my bedroom, I share with my husband, right? So I think if we’re in this theme of like celebration, it feels that almost like then just taking really immaculate care of yourself. I think that’s another way that I just always did in my business. And I recently did like a big upgrade and I’m like, okay, that was my six figure office. Now I want my seven figure office. And then I did this whole like re-brand of my office space.

But it feels so, like I really look forward to walking into this room every day. And so I think it’s sort of like how we live our days is how we live our lives. And so are you just creating the fabric of your days to be a reflection of what you want to look back in hindsight at your life, and say like, this was my life.

Lindsay: I love it. And I wish that they could just see my view right now. Because as you’re talking, you have this just like amazing rainbow wall behind you. And what I think is so fun, is that when I think about doing this, and I’m about to, I’m getting ready to turn a different room in my house into my office. We have to build a wall first, so that’s happening soon.

And yeah, I notice myself sometimes, I’m sure a lot of your clients probably say things like this to you. But I notice myself like, oh, this is what it’s supposed to look like or this is what it should look like. And because I’m, especially I think my energy is just very different than yours. So for example, I would never have, I love –

Kathryn: But you would not have the rainbow.

Lindsay: Yeah, but I love it so much. I love looking at it, it matches you, I’m like, “Yes, of course.” And you, looking at my background, which this eventually won’t be my office, but even now it’s like pretty much kind of a blank slate. And I think that my whole house is kind of like that, it’s just very calm. Like that’s the environment that I love to be in. And I think sometimes I think it’s because my brain loves to create enough chaos that I just want my surroundings to be just pretty calm and not a lot to take in.

It makes me think of when we were walking in New York and we went, where did we go? Sephora or something, we walked in and I was like, “Whoa.” It was just a lot.

Kathryn: A lot.

Lindsay: It was loud, there was music on, it was packed full of people. And that was one thing in New York that did surprise me, because here I feel like people just don’t go, not as many people go physically to the store anymore.

Kathryn: To physical stores, yeah.

Lindsay: And so I was like, “Whoa, there are people shopping.” But there was just a lot. There was stuff everywhere, employees everywhere, people everywhere. And we walked out and I took a deep breath. I was like, okay, that was just a lot of intake.

But where I was going with that is I think part of what I hear you saying that’s important to remember is not thinking about, like what would that look like for someone else? What would someone else’s celebration be? What would it look like for someone else to enjoy this space? But really asking yourself like, what is my version of that?

Kathryn: Yeah. And I think, like so just to give like a little pro tip to like double click into this for a second. Like one of the things that I teach in the program is you want your zoom space to be a reflection of what you want to present to the world, like who you are. But then out in front of you, you want something that feeds you.

So I have like a patio outside and I covered it, it’s like a green wall. It’s a plant wall, so it’s like very calm, very nourishing. It’s actually sort of like my husband or Lindsay Dotzlaf right in front of me.

Lindsay: I was going to say, now that sounds amazing. Right up my alley.

Kathryn: But it’s like because I have such sort of like a big energy that can sort of go explode all over the place. Like it’s really good for me to have something that’s grounding and centering that I can also focus myself on. But for what I’m presenting to the world, I want it to be like a reflection of me. So there’s like a way you can think about your office strategically that way.

Lindsay: I love this. I’m going to start, I’m just starting to think about my office. And, obviously, I need the name of your person. But I love that, thinking about it like that because it’s funny, on the other side of my computer I have a window. And it’s closed right now because when I record I make it a little more padded in here.

But normally it’s open and I love kind of the energy of like seeing things going on outside, which is kind of what you’re saying. It’s like there’s more things going on on the other side. And then behind me is just very calm.

Kathryn: It’s calm, yeah. Isn’t that so fascinating?

Lindsay: That’s interesting.

Kathryn: It’s like you were already doing it? Yeah, and now it’s like now that you can see it’s like, oh, I was already doing that for myself. But is there something, now that I know that I’ve already subconsciously been doing this anyway, that would like amplify that experience?

Lindsay: Yeah.

Kathryn: That’s so fun.

Lindsay: I love that. And not like my neighborhood in hopping, it’s pretty quiet, really. But I just love even just people walking by or kids playing outside or any of that. When I can see that I’m like, “Oh, yeah, I love that.” So yeah, it’s really interesting to think about.

Kathryn: Yeah, so good.

Lindsay: Well thank you so much for doing this. This was so fun. Tell everybody where they can find you if they’re listening and they’re like, “Wait, I need more of this. I need to know about this branding stuff.” About all the things you’re talking about. Where can they find you?

Kathryn: Yes, so I run a branding program called The Brand Alchemy Accelerator. And if you’re interested in that or my mastermind, which is then Pleasure and Precision. So it’s all the business strategy stuff, as well as like really making sure that you’re tying the growth of your pleasure to the growth of your business.

And you can learn more about both of those programs at my website, I’m guessing you have show notes, so people can find that.

Lindsay: Yeah, we’ll link it.

Kathryn: Love it. I’m on Instagram at Katherine Morrison coaching. Or if you listen, well you clearly listen to podcasts because you’re listening to this right now.

Lindsay: Yes.

Kathryn: If you’ve enjoyed me, you can go find me at Ascension Through Entrepreneurship.

Lindsay: And if they come to your Instagram, they can see the background that we’re talking about because it is there all the time.

Kathryn: I know, it’s like gained me many clients.

Lindsay: I love it.

Kathryn: People find me on like a hashtag and they’re like what’s happening with the rainbow lady? And then they like literally say in the branding program, “I bought because like I found you and I saw this background.” Lindsay: That is so interesting because people, obviously they don’t call me the rainbow lady because this is very opposite. But it’s just interesting that just planted something in my mind that’s like the reason why someone might buy something from you. Your energy, your background, your whatever can actually influence that, right?

Kathryn: Yeah.

Lindsay: Because sometimes I have clients tell me, “Oh, I knew I had to work with you because you’re just so calm. Like I need that, I need more of that in my life. And that’s why I’m here.”

Kathryn: So I remember texting you, but if anyone joins my branding program, I did a whole training on –

Lindsay: Oh yeah, someone told me about it first. And then I was like, “Wait, what?” And then you told me and I was like, “Oh this is incredible.” So good.

Kathryn: So I teach people how to, like what is your unique energetic that impacts your strategy, that impacts your visual brand, all of it. But I had a training where I used Lindsay Dotzlaf as the calm person. And I like played part of your, I like literally looked at your Instagram. I was like what is she doing and how is she doing it? So anyway, I unpacked you.

Lindsay: That’s so good, I was like a case study.

Kathryn: I didn’t even asking for permission, Lindsay, I just texted you and told you.

Lindsay: You knew I’d be fine with it. it’s so fun, I was like a case study and didn’t even know it. I think the text I got from someone was, Kathryn Morrison is teaching about you.” And I was like, “Teaching about me, what does that mean?”

Kathryn: You were my earth energy example.

Lindsay: Oh, that’s good.

Kathryn: Yeah.

Lindsay: I like it. Well, we’ll just wrap up with that.

Kathryn: Yeah, mic drop, there’s nowhere to go.

Lindsay: That’s right.

Kathryn: Thank you for having me on and happy birthday.

Lindsay: Oh my gosh, thank you so much and thank you for being here.

Thanks for listening to this episode of Mastering Coaching Skills. If you want to learn more about my work, come visit me at That’s Lindsay with an A, see you next week.

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