Lindsay Dotzlaf

Mastering Coaching Skills with Lindsay Dotzlaf | Nothing Has Gone Wrong with Jennifer Dent Brown

Ep #46: Nothing Has Gone Wrong with Jennifer Dent Brown

If you’ve been on diet after diet and you’re still struggling, then something is missing. My guest this week helps her clients find what it is, so they can get off the weight-loss struggle bus and lose weight without dieting. While this is a great, specific niche, it took some work to get her to that place. And I know a lot of you are struggling in this area so you’re going to find this episode so valuable.

I’m here this week with Jennifer Dent Brown. Jennifer is a life and weight loss coach who helps women learn how to stop dieting forever. She has created an amazing coaching business, and she’s here to share the steps that have gotten her to this point after struggling with the belief that everything was going wrong, and what she’s planning for the future.

Listen in this week as Jennifer and I discuss her coaching journey, and why despite what you might think if you’re struggling right now, nothing has gone wrong. Jennifer is sharing how she helps her clients stop beating themselves up and instead have some self-compassion, and where the same work helped her as she was finding her way in the coaching industry.

If you want to take the work we’re doing here on the podcast and go even deeper, you need to join my six-month mastermind! Coaching Masters is open for enrollment for a limited time, so click here to start working on the one thing you need to be a successful coach.

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I am so excited to hear what you all think about the podcast – if you have any feedback, please let me know! You can leave me a rating and review in Apple Podcasts, which helps me create an excellent show and helps other coaches find it, too.

What You’ll Learn from this Episode:

  • Why it’s so difficult for some weight loss coaches to discover who their ideal client is, especially as they start their business.
  • Jennifer’s experience of deciding who her ideal client is, and choosing to focus only on them.
  • Why focusing on your ideal client is always going to pay off, as long as you don’t give up.
  • The emotions and thoughts Jennifer struggled with before coaching with me, and how I coached her through these early stages of her coaching business.
  • How Jennifer helps her clients stop being so hard on themselves and acknowledge the growth they’re going through.
  • Where and why Jennifer buffered with busy work in the early days of her coaching.
  • How Jennifer plans to keep growing as a coach in the future and continue to improve her coaching skills.
  • Jennifer’s experience inside of Coaching Masters and how it helped her get clear on her core values as a coach.

Listen to the Full Episode:

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Full Episode Transcript:

To really compete in the coaching industry, you have to be great at coaching. That’s why every week, I will be answering your questions, sharing my stories, and offering tips and advice so you can be the best at what you do. Let’s get to work.

Lindsay: Hello, hello, I’m so excited that you’re here today. And I know that everyone listening is also going to be excited and get a lot out of this conversation. Introduce yourself, tell them who you are. Anything else you want to tell them, what you do.

Jennifer: Well, first, I just have to say how am I love Lindsay. Just get that out the way, my very first and favorite coach.

I am Jennifer Dent Brown. I am a life and weight loss coach and I help women learn how to stop dieting forever. So you know if that’s you, if you have been on diet after diet after diet, and you’re still struggling. Something’s missing so I help women get off of the weight loss struggle bus, teach you how to lose weight without dieting. It’s what I love to do.

Lindsay: I love your niche, we were talking about this just before we started. But I love it because it is so clear who it’s for. So I think because you just described the whole thing. Let’s just dive in there for just a minute.

So when you started coaching with me, first you were my one on one client and then you were in Coaching Masters. And when you started, you were already pretty clear on your niche. But I do remember just you having lots of thoughts about like, “Well, I should also take this person.” And basically like, “If they’re coming to me, I’m going to take them as a client.”

What do you think kind of helped you get to the point where you’re just like, no, this is who I work with and this is why I love it?

Jennifer: There’s so many things that helped. I think, one, I got really clear on who I was. And I know it sounds backwards like, what do you mean you didn’t know who you were? But I really stepped into authentically being myself.

So when I was clear in my brain of who I am, how I present, how I am unique and different from other weight loss coaches, because there’s 8 million different weight loss coaches just on the east coast. When I got clear in my head about what was different and my unique selling point was, then I got super clear on my client.

Because there was less mind drama about like, “Well, am I saying this right?” Or “Who am I talking to?” Then I got really clear on speaking to exactly the people I wanted to work with. And then they came.

Lindsay: That’s so fun for me having kind of been in your business with you for a while, really watching from the outside how clear it is. Every time I see your podcast episode post, and I just think, “So clear.” It just lights me up, I get so excited.

And I do want to be clear for everybody listening, because I talk a lot about like, you don’t have to have a specific niche. But why I think this is important to kind of address is I see people pick a niche that’s very general. Like weight loss, there are 200 different ways you can coach on weight loss, right? There’s like 200 different niches kind of under that umbrella.

And where you are in your business now? What are your thoughts about how does it help you when you become so clear on who that person is you’re talking to and being okay with letting go of the other people?

Jennifer: Oh, that’s good, being okay with letting go of the other people.

Lindsay: Or just being okay, they might still come, right? But being okay with not thinking I have to talk to all of them.

Jennifer: Yeah, and that was a definitely an issue for me in the beginning. It’s like I felt like I had to speak to everyone. And I know, it’s like when you’re trying to speak to everyone, you’re not really targeting anyone clearly.

And it’s almost like if you read someone’s copy or their Instagram post or something, and they’re like trying to speak so generically, it’s almost like hearing that feature from Charlie Brown who’s like, “Wah, wah, wah, wah, wah,” and then you just scroll past and you don’t even read it. So you’re not really targeting anyone.

I think for me, like I said, it was me getting clear with who I am and what I offer. Because at that point, I had probably coached, I don’t know, a couple dozen clients. And so really understanding their problems deeply. Really understanding what they were struggling with, starting to see patterns, starting to see themes across the women that I was coaching.

Starting to see the clients that I didn’t want to coach and what were the characteristics in them that I started to notice clearly when I was doing consults. So I was like, “Oh, she’s got that characteristic. I don’t know if she’s my best client.”

So I guess it’s being in the game for a while. Just being in the game, coaching a lot of people, and just paying attention and not giving up.

Lindsay: You are like the queen of not giving up, for sure. When I think about the coaching that we did together and you just were always like, “No, we’re going. I’m quitting my job, this is happening.” You were so focused and truly like one of my favorite clients to coach because you were so willing to just be in it.

Sometimes I was like, “You know, you don’t always have to be so in it. You could just have a good day today. Not be so hard on yourself.”

Jennifer: Well, I had to learn that right? Because I was ridiculously hard on myself.

Lindsay: Yeah.

Jennifer: And if I had to summarize our coaching relationship into one sentence, it would be nothing has gone wrong. I think you told me that probably every time we coached. Because I was really hard on myself. And I always felt like I wasn’t doing enough. I just wasn’t getting it. I was inadequate. I wasn’t capable of doing things. And you would always say, “Nothing has gone wrong.”

And I swear for like, I don’t know, the first six months of you saying that to me repeatedly, I was like, “What is she talking about? Everything is a mess. Can she not see that everything is just terrible?” And you would always say, “Nothing has gone wrong because this is exactly where you need to be.”

And then one day, I just, I got it. I was like, “Oh, Lindsay was right. Nothing has gone wrong.” And so the funny thing is, I’m always telling that to my clients now.

Lindsay: I love that.

Jennifer: And they always look at me and they roll their eyes. And I’m like, “Nothing has gone wrong.” I was like, “This is exactly where you need to be to learn what you need to learn so you can grow from it.”

Lindsay: Yes. That gave me chills. And I think I’ve been very open about this on this podcast about how I attract a lot of clients that are very hard on themselves because that was me, and it still is. And I still have to work through that and tell myself, “Hey, Lindsey, guess what? Nothing has gone wrong.” It’s still something I use for myself.

When you say that now to yourself or to your clients, what do you think it helps you kind of see? Or what does it help them see? Whichever way you want to talk about it.

Jennifer: Yeah, for me, it just helps me see that growth for one. Because before, I would think something was happening that wasn’t right, something had gone wrong. And it would just send me in like a tailspin for like two weeks. And I just wouldn’t do anything in my business, wasn’t thinking. I would just be beating myself up for whatever was going on.

And now when I tell myself shit happens, and I’m like, “Nothing has gone wrong.”

Lindsay: Do you roll your eyes at yourself?

Jennifer: No, not at all. Not at all.

Lindsay: Good.

Jennifer: No, because I totally believe it. I totally believe it like, nothing is going wrong right now. This is happening for a reason. And then it’s almost like I can step outside of my brain and be like, “Okay, so what are we going to do now? What are we learning from this? What can we do? What do I need right now in this moment?” And I have the maturity to ask myself that question.

Lindsay: Yes.

Jennifer: Whereas before, I would be so busy beating myself up, way down in the rabbit hole of despair that I couldn’t even think to ask myself that question.

Lindsay: And to me, it’s like when you’re in that, not you, but anyone, right? When you’re in that space, you’re just trying to solve for the wrong problem. It’s like something could have actually gone wrong, right? You had a launch and you failed, or you wrote an email and made someone mad, or whatever it is.

Something could actually have gone wrong, but when you just go to the space of like, “I’m just going to beat myself up about it” You can’t do the real problem solving that it takes to solve the real thing. Instead, it’s just like, “I’m just going to beat myself up.” And like you said, not do anything for two weeks.

Jennifer: And quit. I remember, I was doing like a series of launches. I think I had just started doing my five day free challenges. And you were coaching me through that. And every day I was like, “Oh, today was awful. Only five people showed up.” And you would always say, “Nothing has gone wrong, do your little evaluation.” And I was like, “Oh, at the end of the day that’s a good idea.”

So I remember I started doing that. And then I was able, again, to instead of carrying over the beating up of myself from day to day to day during the five day free challenge. I was able to say, “Okay, so this happened this time. We get to do it again tomorrow and try something different.”

Lindsay: Yes, that’s so good.

Jennifer: And then just keep going and keep going and keep going. And I think that year I did a bunch of those five day challenges. Which has now turned into a 30 day paid challenge.

Lindsay: Oh, I love it. We’ll talk more about that for sure. Because at the end I’ll have you tell them exactly how they can work with you if anybody wants to do that.

And I love that you used that example because that is the perfect way to see the difference. It’s like if you hadn’t just told yourself, “Wait a minute, I don’t have to beat myself up. Nothing has actually gone wrong here. Let me just evaluate on the day to day,” you probably would have given up on those five day challenges. And now you wouldn’t have a paid 30 day challenge.

Jennifer: Totally, see, nothing has gone wrong. It had to happen exactly the way that it had to happen so we can be here having this conversation.

Lindsay: Yeah. I think when you’re just used to being–  I know, at least for me, and I’m pretty sure we talked about this and have this in common. But I was used to being such a good student and being good at things purposefully in my life. And being an entrepreneur is just a little tricky because most of us aren’t used to failing over and over and over and having to keep going.

Let’s say I decide I want to play the guitar. And I try a few times, I’m like, “I’m really terrible at this.” I could just stop and nothing negative is going to happen in my life, right? But when you’re building a business, it’s so different. It’s like, “Nope, I want to keep going.” There’s a big difference between that and just deciding not to do things. What do you think about that?

Jennifer: Totally agree. For me, I wanted to quit my job. Like that was the ultimate goal. Even though it was very difficult to leave. I remember we kept setting these deadlines and they would come and go when I was supposed to leave the job.

Lindsay: Yeah.

Jennifer: But I knew ultimately, I wanted to be a full time entrepreneur. In order for me to become a full time entrepreneur, I had to make some money. So in order for me to make some money, I had to stay in the game. I had to keep learning these lessons. I had to keep showing up every week like, “OMG, Lindsay, everything is terrible.” And you would tell me the same thing, like, “Nothing has gone wrong.”

And I just kept paying attention to you and paying attention to other coaches and what they were saying. I’m like, “They clearly know something that I don’t know. So I’m just going to try to pay attention and do what they’re doing and just keep figuring it out.”

But I tell my clients, when it comes to weight loss, a lot of us who have been on diets before, it’s like you just start something, you’re all excited, it doesn’t work out the way you want it to, so you quit. And then you go back to eating all the things and you gain weight. And you’re like, “Okay, I got to go start something else.”

And then you start the thing again, and you’re all excited, and you’re like, “This is the one.” And then whatever happens, life happens, and you don’t end up losing the weight. And so you’re in this constant start, stop, start, stop, start, stop cycle. And I think I learned that from weight loss it’s like, “Oh, you got to keep going until you get to your goal. There is no end of the line, you just keep going.”

And so I transferred that mindset into business of like, you just keep figuring it out and you just keep going, no matter what because nothing has gone wrong.

Lindsay: That’s right. And I think what’s so beautiful about that is the way you translated it into your business. I remember when we very first started coaching, not just you, like pretty much every coach I know, every entrepreneur wants to do this, because it’s very hard to stay the course when you think everything is going wrong.

I remember you always wanting to make changes, right? And I hope you don’t mind me saying this, I can always edit it out. But you were like, “I’m changing my website, and I’m changing my landing page.” And it was always like, the links, and the site, and the things, and I’m going to do it totally different.

And I was like, “No, no, no, hold on.” Because when you do that and you just change the thing to feel more comfortable you just don’t have the opportunity to learn, “Actually, this isn’t going to work. How do I make it work? How do I stay on the same path and figure out how it can work?”

Jennifer: Yes, you have a very good memory. I was very hell bent on like, “Nope, got to change the website, it’s all wrong. Got to re-brand, pick out some new colors.”

Lindsay: Oh yeah.

Jennifer: Because I think for me, doing the busy work was really just a buffer. It was a buffer because I was so judgmental of myself and doing those assessments was difficult. Looking to see, “Okay, this went okay. Did this really go okay?” Admitting to myself I did something well. And then the what didn’t go well was exponential and I could just stay there.

So it was very difficult for me to just be 100% honest and transparent with myself without all the extra judgment. So, of course, in order for me to avoid doing that, I was like, “No, we need new branding.” I’m very good at writing sales pages. I can spend two days creating a sales page. It’s amazing.

Lindsay: I will say it was always so beautiful too. You would send me like, “This is what I’ve been working on.” And I would look and like, “Yep, it looks great. It’s probably way better than my website. And also come back, hold on, what’s happening?”

So let’s actually talk about this for a second. Because sometimes I have people, clients in Coaching Masters, who don’t want to– The one thing I teach them now, which is a little different than when you were there is to really evaluate their coaching. We did that, I’m just more specific about it now. And sometimes, I don’t want to do that because it just feels uncomfortable.

So I love that you just said that. How did you get to the place where it was like, I can still critically Look at this, but it doesn’t have to feel bad?

Jennifer: So I think that’s a great question. For me, it now comes back to growth. Like at the end of the day, in order for me to continue to grow personally, my own mindset, grow as a coach, grow as a businessperson. In order for me to grow, I’ve got to keep learning. And I can’t learn if I don’t know what I need to learn, if that makes sense.

Lindsay: Yeah.

Jennifer: The act of asking myself questions and looking at it nonjudgmentally allows me to really grow faster. And when I got that, doing these assessments is like no big deal.

Lindsay: Love it.

Jennifer: Assessing my coaching, no big deal. Of course, I’m going to do that because I know it’s going to make me better.

Lindsay: That’s so good. Your thought about that, which is, I forget exactly how you just said it, but like this is the thing that’s going to help me move forward or that’s going to make me better at what I’m doing. The thought that works for me, which is pretty much the same thing, is this is going to show me my exact path forward.

Because that’s how I think about an evaluation, I’ve talked about this maybe a couple episodes ago, but when you kind of think about what went really well in this client session? What didn’t go so well? And then what do I want to do next time? I’m pretty sure you and I talked about this a lot. But I’m always really sure to answer everything in that middle section in the last section.

So it’s like this is just going to show me exactly what I need to even do. So when my brain wants the how it’s like, “No, no, here’s the evaluation. This is what we’re doing, get to work.”

Jennifer: Yeah, I have a similar thought, it’s my GPS. And that’s what I tell my clients too because I have my clients do assessments as well. End of the month right, so you started the month off at this weight, ended the month at this weight. Let’s figure out what happened in between.

And so when you do that assessment and you figure out, “Okay, so this worked, this didn’t work.” What are you going to do differently going into the next month? And I’m like, that’s how you continue to learn how your body releases weight every single month, versus that start, stop, start, stop, start, stop cycle.

Lindsay: Yeah. Okay, I have two questions about that. The first one is, how do you navigate or how do you help them not be hard on themselves when they’re doing that? When they’re doing the assessment.

Jennifer: I got to teach them what I learned, right? So nothing has gone wrong. Again, what I preach to them as well. And I just share my experiences all the time of how I used to beat myself up and how I used to be so hard on myself for gaining two pounds. I would like lose seven and gain back four. And then how I would like throw my whole plan off and just eat and drink whatever on the weekends.

And I’m like, “Look people, it took me decades to get to where I am now. Decades of trying to diet to lose weight.” And I was like, “It’s a waste of time. I’m helping you like do this process. You can shave all that time off of your experience and get to your goal weight.” Your forever weight is what I call it.

But I also teach about self-compassion. And that was something that I was like, “Oh, self-compassion sounds so very woo.”

Lindsay: Who needs that?

Jennifer: Who needs self-compassion, right? But it was one of those things that’s like I’m doing those assessments and every time I’m like, “Something is missing. What am I going to do differently?” I’m like, “Oh, maybe I’m going to start liking myself.”

Lindsay: So good.

Jennifer: Maybe I’m going to start like loving myself and patting myself on the back more often. So one of the strategies I teach them is really learning how to give themselves what I call a mental hug. And just saying, “You know what? You ate two cookies, it’s okay.” It’s okay, you’re learning how to think differently about food. And it’s not a one and done process, it takes time.

Lindsay: I love that.

Jennifer: So yeah, self-compassion.

Lindsay: So my second question which, of course, ties right into what you just said is, do you have them do it when things are going well? Like when they nail it, when they really hit their goal, do you have them do it then too?

Jennifer: Mm-hmm, every week. I’m like, “How did you create this result? What did you do?”

Lindsay: I’m so glad you said yes, it would have been awkward if you had said no. I would have just coached you right here on the Zoom.

Jennifer: I’m open to it.

Lindsay: I’m just kidding. Okay, but why? Why do you think it’s– Again, this is something I talk about a lot. But maybe someone will hear it in a different way this time. Why is that important?

Jennifer: Well, for weight loss, a lot of women approach weight loss with like, let me do all the things. Let me stop eating carbs. Let me make sure I get my 10,000 steps in every day. Let me make sure I drink 85 ounces of water. We think the weight loss result comes from doing all of these things.

And what I teach them is like, yeah, partially, but for the most part it’s like you have a thought that either causes you to do something or not do something. And so what I want them to see when they create a result–

And I just had one client who just lost her first 10 pounds without dieting, we always celebrate in the group. And I’m like, “Okay, how did you create that?” And they always go back to like, “Well, I stuck to my plan.” Or “I started getting on the Peloton and I extended my rides from 30 minutes to 45 minutes.”

And I’m like, “Okay, that’s good.” And I’ll write it down on the board. And then I’ll say, “Okay, so what was the thought that you were thinking that you were like, okay, so now instead of doing 30 minutes on the Peloton bike, I’m going to do 45, what were you thinking? And why?” And then they start talking about that.

And then I’ll say, “Okay, so you stuck to your plan? Okay, great.” And we’ll look, because I give them a planner so they can see, “Oh, I followed my plan 90% of the time.” Okay, great. What were you thinking? Because last month on the weekends you went and ate everything. So what were you thinking that caused you to follow your plan?

Lindsay: Yes.

Jennifer: And so I really want them to see that it’s not just the actions that’s helping them, it’s the thinking.

Lindsay: I think what’s so important about that, and I love the way you described it, is the same is true for business. The same is true for evaluating your coaching. The same is true for truly anything, right? If you’re a marriage coach, whatever, but it’s always true.

I think doing that and really evaluating when it is working and why, is the thing that helps you keep going. Instead of, for example, with weight loss, just doing it out of motivation. You can have a lot of willpower in the beginning to take the actions without the thought. Don’t you think?

Jennifer: Totally.

Lindsay: Yeah.

Jennifer: And that’s what most people do. They get all excited in the beginning like, “Yay!”  Because of willpower is like on a level 10. I call it the motivation meltdown. And like halfway through, it’s a week or two weeks in and something happens, and they just fall off track, then the motivation meltdown has happened. And they’re back to where they started again.

Lindsay: Yes. Yeah. And I see people do that in their business, right? For example, when you’re like, “I can’t wait to quit my job. This is going to be so great. I’m going to quit it in a couple months.” I just remember thinking like, “We’ll see about that.”

Jennifer: Or I would spend the entire weekend building a funnel.

Lindsay: Yeah.

Jennifer: Because I was very much like, “This is the thing that’s going to get me the result. Yay!” And I would spend all this time creating content, “Yay! I’m being productive. I’m all excited. This is the thing that’s going to like blow me up. And I’m going to just have all these clients make all this money so I can quit my job.”

Lindsay: It’s like trying to lose the weight so you can fit in the bikini or whatever, right?

Jennifer: It’s the exact same thing, exact same thing.

Lindsay: One thing that came up before we started here, I said, “What do you think? Let’s talk about some of your biggest takeaways from the mastermind, from working with me.” And one of the big things you said is that you really learn to be your own best client. How would you describe that? What does that mean to you and why do you think that it helps so much?

Jennifer: Well, you helped us a lot kind of get over those client humps. You’d have a “difficult” client. Or you had a client that just didn’t want to do, like they weren’t getting it, like something is wrong with them. And really, that was just a reflection of myself.

Really it was just like, I’m being difficult because, my mental self, I’m being difficult with whatever I’m not facing or whatever I’m not working through on my own. So learning to, number one, and I was going back and looking through my notes from Coaching Masters, learning to love self-coaching was something that I wrote in the beginning of 2020.

And I’ve shared my story before, you know, I didn’t want to write anything down. I was like, “Who has time to do that?”

Lindsay: Because you have funnels work on.

Jennifer: I got funnels to create. I have websites and branding to do, come on, I don’t have time to self-coach. So, in me, learning that practice, and again, looking to you and to like, “Oh, Lindsay’s doing all these things, maybe I should start doing these things and modeling myself after what you were doing.”

Lindsay: Yeah.

Jennifer: I became better, but my brain became better. And I spent less time in the despair mode and more time up here.

Lindsay: I’d forgotten this. But I do remember now having these conversations where you were like, “Yeah, I mean, I did it. I just would coach myself in my head, and then just move on.” What do you think is the difference between that versus really sitting down taking a minute writing it out, or typing, or however you do it now?

Jennifer: Oh, well, you know. I’m like, my brain is ADD-ish, right? So we have talked about that. Trying to coach myself in my head, they say the average person has like 60,000 thoughts a day. My ADD-ish brain has like twice that. It’s always just spinning. It’s always like 8 million things are going through my head at the same time.

So trying to coach myself without writing it down was like a joke. It’s like impossible. But that’s where I started, I had to start somewhere.

Lindsay: Yeah, definitely better than nothing.

Jennifer: It’s better than nothing, at least it was trying to have some awareness.

Lindsay: Yes. So then a good thing that happens with it is that it just creates more awareness. Like, “Oh, this is actually what I’m thinking right now.” Right?

Jennifer: Yeah.

Lindsay: You might not really see how all your actions relate to what you’re thinking. But at least at the minimum you can see, “Okay, this isn’t working, or it is working, or whatever. And here’s what I’m thinking. Maybe they’re connected.”

Jennifer: Yeah, definitely. Like, yeah, I’m not on autopilot anymore. It’s like, “Oh, a thought there, there it is. Okay.” But the writing down process, it just slows everything down. Being able to see all of your thoughts on paper, which took me a couple of months to get that process straight. But it really is powerful.

Because then you notice, like, “Well, these are just words on a paper.” Suddenly it doesn’t seem so intense when it’s not in my head and it’s down on paper. And I can look at it like, “Oh, yeah, it’s just a little sentence, look at that. Did I believe that? I can’t believe I believed that.”

Lindsay: Yes, I love it. I think too, it is really helpful to write it down because you’re able to spend some time, especially, it’s so funny because everyone’s like, “No, it’s your thoughts,” which is true. But I always say now, the way I really teach it is it is your thoughts. But your thoughts and your feelings are creating all of these actions.

Let’s figure out what all of them are. Not just one. Let’s get them all out so you can really see, okay, when you’re day after day doing these 10 things because you’re believing it’s not working or whatever. How does that really affect your results?

Jennifer: Oh, that’s good, Lindsay. I’m going to write that one down.

Lindsay: Yeah, and I think you can even come back later, right? Because this is what I do in my own self coaching sometimes when I’m really in it. Like just really having some drama, I know you think that that doesn’t happen, but it definitely does, and I use the self-coaching model.

When I can put that on paper and keep it out on my desk. I can come back later when I realize, “Oh, here’s the other thing I do when I’m thinking this,” and I can fill it in more.

Jennifer: That’s really good. That’s really good.

Lindsay: Like I just spent an hour shopping for shoes, that probably wasn’t useful, right? But it’s like I might not catch that if I’m not really staying in the awareness of what that model looks like, the whole day.

Jennifer: That’s really good. Because our brains, like we know actions. Our brains can automatically pick up like, “Oh, I totally did that.” Or “I totally didn’t do that.”

Lindsay: Yes.

Jennifer: But we don’t necessarily pick up on the thought first, but the actions are really easy. And I like the fact that you said write them all down. Because sometimes there is a long list of things that you didn’t do, or things that you should have done and you didn’t do.

Lindsay: Yeah, and I love exploring the things that you didn’t do, right? Because I think that that’s the one that’s easy to forget. Because in the moment, it might be such a quick decision of like, “No, I’ll do that later.” Or whatever it is that you might not even notice until you’re really exploring a model or whatever, you know, people use other tools for awareness.

But when you’re really exploring it like, “Oh, I see. Here’s this list of what I’m doing. But there’s also this whole list of what am I not doing.”

Jennifer: Mm-hmm. And that is being transparent. I think it was Brigg that said it’s like shining a flashlight on your brain.

Lindsay: Yes, for sure.

Jennifer: I love that.

Lindsay: Yeah, I think of it as we’re just going for a walk around my brain. We’re looking in every corner. We’re not going to open one door and then slam it back closed because it’s scary in there.  We’re definitely going to go down that path today.

Jennifer: I love that, that’s good. That’s good. See, I’m still learning from Lindsey.

Lindsay: I love it. So tell me about your method for coaching. Do you have a routine? What does that look like for you?

Jennifer: So you would be surprised now. My self-coaching, I literally get up at 5am now. Before when I used to get up at five, it was like, “Oh, I got to write some emails and stuff before I start my workday.” And I used to hate getting up at five. But now I get up at five so I can sit down and think.

Lindsay: I love it.

Jennifer: I love it. It’s quiet and I write down my goals, like what am I working towards? I use my planner too, that I have with my clients. I’m always still doing my tracking and my planning. And I have all of my thoughts about that. And then I have my other notebook, where I write down my goals for the business, what am I struggling with? Why have I not reached the goal yet?

If I’m creating something I’ll spend about 90 minutes, sometimes two hours just like sipping my tea, writing out my thoughts, thinking about my clients. I got that from you too, like always thinking about my clients. Like what is the best thing for them? And not just individually, but now that I have a group and lots of clients it’s like what’s good for one person is good for the masses.

Lindsay: Yes.

Jennifer: And what is the best way to help them get that transformation? So I’ll like brainstorm on those ideas. I leave some of my private clients Voxer messages. I do a technique that I call belief journaling that I teach my clients. It’s like taking yourself to the place where you’ve already achieved your goal. And I put on my belief playlist.

Lindsay: Love it.

Jennifer: And I play my music and I write down all of the thoughts that I am thinking when I have reached my goal, and I just go there. And then I like take that vibe and I go do my workout.

Lindsay: That’s good. I love that.

Jennifer: Yeah.

Lindsay: So, okay, for anybody that just heard that and was like, “Wait a minute, hold on, you do what?” Say it one more time. So you take yourself and your brain to the place where you’ve done the thing, you’ve accomplished the thing.

Jennifer: Yeah, so I have done all the dumping, right? I’ve done all the dumpy thoughts, I’ve written out all of the thoughts that are just swirling around in my head, they’re not really serving me.

Lindsay: So you’ve already, first step you cleared it all out.

Jennifer: I’ve cleared it all out.

Lindsay: You emptied the closet.

Jennifer: Emptied the closet, fresh closet. I’ve done some models, if I need to do the models. And then I reconnect with my goal, like what are we working towards here? It’s not just what am I doing today, but what’s the big term goal? Reconnect with my goal.

And then I’ll put on my music with my headphones. And I have a belief playlist and I just think about me achieving the goal. And I write down what will I be thinking when I have achieved the goal.

And I did this when I was building my one on one practice last year and it becoming full. I was like, “What will be thinking when I sign that next client? What will I be thinking when I have 20 clients on my calendar? How will I be feeling? What will I be telling my husband? What will I be messaging Lindsay to tell her I just signed another client?” And it’s not the same thing every day, it’s not the same thoughts.

But it’s really just taking myself to that place because your brain doesn’t know the difference between your current reality and your imagined reality. So then I would just finish that time of feeling really good, being in the vibe like, “Yes, I have completed my goal.” Last year it was like, “Yes, I am a 100K coach, it’s happening.”

And then I would take that energy and then go do my workout. And then that’s when I would still be thinking those thoughts and listening to the music and it was just like a good time.

Lindsay: Okay, so everybody wants to know, I just know that they do. This is the question on everyone’s mind. What is on the playlist?

Jennifer: Oh, okay, because my brain is ADD-ish I need to listen to music that has no words. Because if I hear words –

Lindsay: I can’t do that. Yeah, I’m the same.

Jennifer: Yeah, it’s going to take me off to like, “Oh, I remember when I first heard that song.” So if you search for the Beyoncé, of course, instrumental. Any song that you want, there’s a karaoke version of it you can find.

Lindsay: That’s so good.

Jennifer: Add it to your playlist. I have Beyoncé, I have–  I’m going to look at it now, I can’t think of it. Something like Whitestone, it’s an old song from like the late 70s, Ain’t No Stopping Us Now. When I hear that song I’m like, “Yes.” That is my theme song, but it’s an instrumental version.

Lindsay: That’s so good. I definitely need to do it.

Jennifer: I also have the Wonder Woman playlist from the soundtrack. So if you listen to movie soundtracks, there’s a lot of very like theatrical dramatic music. So the one song, I forget, from the Wonder Woman soundtrack where she’s fighting, I feel that one.

Lindsay: Love it. Now, are you able to not say the words along with the song? Because my problem would be, I think, if I picked songs that I knew, I’m like a song encyclopedia. I know every word to every song that ever was. I wish I could memorize other things like that, but I can’t. And I would for sure still be– I think I would still be distracted by, like the words would still be happening.

Jennifer: That’s an interesting question, I think I probably do say some of the words, especially the chorus. But it’s not distracting enough for me to keep me away from what I’m focused on.

Lindsay: I’ll have to try it. I’ll try it and report back, see how it goes.

Jennifer: And then the movie soundtracks, there’s no words to those. It’s just dramatic music. And I have these very fancy Bose headphones. They’re noise canceling, I can’t hear anything. The sound is amazing. And that’s how I like to start my morning.

Lindsay: Love it. You are just like dropping some serious nuggets. I hope everyone is really paying attention. And everybody do what Jennifer says, so good.

Jennifer: It works. I teach my clients the same thing. It works.

Lindsay: I love it. Okay, so two of the other things that I want to briefly touch on before we hop off here that you said when I asked you what you want to talk about.

One thing was, we did an exercise when you were in Coaching Masters in 2020. We did an exercise around core values, which I do something similar now, but it’s a little different. First describe briefly what it was. And then why did that feel so important to you and so helpful in your business?

Jennifer: Yeah, we did that exercise and you had us decide– I don’t remember if you gave us a number of core values to pick or I just chose three. But you wanted us to, one, identify what were our personal core values for ourselves, and then translate that into you as a coach. And then that ultimately translated into the business.

So coming from corporate America, like having grown up as a consultant, I was like, “Core values? Oh yeah, that’s like right up my alley.”

Lindsay: Yes, I do remember you lighting up. You were like, “Hold on, what? You’re not even coaching our brains right now? We’re just doing an actual exercise.”

Jennifer: Yeah, I was very happy. I was like, “Core values, oh, this is perfect.”

Lindsay: I love it.

Jennifer: So I remember I went back and I maybe googled core values. And I think I probably found like a list of different company core values. And I started looking at different companies and what were their core values and why. And then I came up with three. But the three core values are really reflective of myself.

Lindsay: Of course.

Jennifer: And then I was able to translate that into the core values of my company. So the first one is growth. And that’s exactly what I learned so much from coaching with you. It’s like if you keep going, if you learn to coach yourself, you’re always going to keep growing. And when I finally saw the growth in myself, I was like, “Oh, I kind of like this. I want to keep growing.”

So one of my first core values is growth. Because if you’re not growing, you’re stagnant. The second one is love. Because you want to continue to grow, but you want to be able to love yourself while you’re doing it. And the third one is contribution.

So as I’m able to greatly reduce my mind drama, and I’m able to coach myself, and I’m able to contribute to my own brain and my own growth, I can be the best coach for my clients. And as I pour into them, they grow. They love themselves. And then they are contributing to their community, and to their families, and to their job. So it’s like it’s the trickle down effect. But it all starts with growth and learning to love yourself.

Lindsay: I just love that so, so much. And this feels like one of those things in my business that I’ve kind of, not forgotten, but I forgot why I started teaching that. And I don’t know if you remember this, but the reason, like where that came from is I think I thought it like the week– First of all it was the summer of 2020.

Jennifer: Say no more.

Lindsay: Do I need to say more? I don’t think so. And I remember I was having a little bit of, I don’t know if this is the right word, but like an identity crisis in my business of like how do I even talk about my business right now? How is it even important in the world? Just all the questions, all the drama just swirling in my mind.

And I just remember thinking, I know why this feels so hard, because I don’t have anything to look at to say like, “Okay, wait, here’s kind of the guide.” Which is how I think of the core values now. It’s like anytime something feels hard or there’s a decision that just feels really heavy, or that really is weighing on me, I can always go back to that and say, “Okay, here they are. Are they aligning? What’s in alignment with what I say right here?

And I do go back and kind of look at them all the time. But I think, for anyone that’s listening, if you haven’t done that, it’s just such a useful exercise because it’s like guidance from yourself. Like, stuff feels really hard right now, how am I going to move forward? Let me access, it’s like my higher brain, right? Because that brain when I created it wasn’t in all the drama. So how can we move forward?

Jennifer: Yeah, no, totally. I have mine right in front of me on my vision board. It’s like that’s just what we do. We continue to grow. We make sure we’re loving ourselves when we do it. And the big reward is as human beings, we’re contributing to society. This is my contribution to society.

Lindsay: Yeah, so good.

Jennifer: Yeah, it’s good.

Lindsay: Love that. Oh, and actually, this kind of ties into what I was just saying, the other thing you brought up that you loved is having a decision making process or learning a decision making process from me.

Jennifer: Yes.

Lindsay: Tell me why.

Jennifer: The Dotzlaf decision making process.

Lindsay: Which let’s be really clear, I don’t think I created it. I may have put some of my own little spins on it, but a lot of people use the same method. I just happen to teach it.

Jennifer: It doesn’t matter, you get all the credit. You get all the credit, I’ve never heard anyone else teach it. And when you taught me I was like, “Oh, that’s how I make a decision.”

Lindsay: So good.

Jennifer: So one of the things that I worked on immensely when working with you and in Coaching Masters was to be really good at making decisions. Because I was very much second guessing myself. Like I couldn’t leave my job, I would make a decision like, “Yeah, I don’t think I want to leave.” It was just very difficult for me to make a decision and stick with it.

Lindsay: Yeah.

Jennifer: So I forget, I don’t even remember what you were helping me come to a decision on.

Lindsay: I don’t remember either.

Jennifer: But I remember like just being like, “OMG, I just made a decision and it was so simple.” So the Dotzlaf decision making process was essentially you write down all of your reasons why you’re going to do the thing, whatever it is. Just write them all down on a piece of paper. And on the other side you write down all the reasons why you wouldn’t do the thing, or make the decision in the other way.

And then you just decide which one you like the best. It really is that simple. You’re going to have pros and cons for each one. But one of them, like intuitively know like which one you like the best. And boom, that’s your decision. That’s it. It’s that simple. And then once you make the decision, you just learn to love it.

Lindsay: Yeah, I talk about this a lot, I think I have a whole podcast episode on it. But it’s like then the drama that you have after, the thoughts you have after are actually useful. It’s like, “Okay, now I can work through these things. I made the decision, now I get to see what comes up.”

Which is a lot more useful than like, “I don’t know. I’m not sure which one I should do. I don’t know. Should I stick to it? I don’t know.” It’s like a lot of confusion and back and forth versus I do know, I made the choice. Now, how do I love it?

Jennifer: And just keep going. Again, don’t give up. Don’t stop, keep going. Keep going.

Lindsay: So good.

Jennifer: Because then you’re going to get to another point and you just make another decision. And you do the same process, you’re like, “All right, decision making process again. Is it this way, or is it this way? Okay, which one do I like the best? All right. Good, decision made, keep going.”

Lindsay: Love it. Is there anything else, besides your business, we’re going to talk about that at the very end. Is there anything else that you want to talk about that we haven’t covered?

Jennifer: No, I mean, every time I see you I’m always like, “Lindsey, you know you changed my life, right?”

Lindsay: What’s so fun is I just saw you recently in person, got to hug you, all the things in Cabo. And I feel the same. Every time I see you I’m like, “Oh, it’s Jennifer.” And I knew the moment I saw you in Cabo I was like, obviously, we’re booking a podcast as soon as we get home, because I just love her so much.

Jennifer: And things have changed. But that is just the power of being a really good coach. So you were able to, as my coach, ask me really powerful questions. Half of them I probably didn’t even answer initially. And I was like, “Oh, I don’t like that one. That’s a little deep.” But you didn’t let that stop you.

You weren’t like, “Oh my god, she’s not answering my questions. This client is awful.” You just kept asking me. And then you would ask me in a different way. And we really ended up getting deep down. I mean, I had some really major transformations and shifts when we were working together. And so that was just extremely powerful.

So being the recipient of a kick ass coach and what that can do on someone’s life has really just opened up my eyes of wanting to be the best coach ever and give that gift to someone else.

Lindsay: I’m glad I sitting in this dark closet right now because I’m feeling a little emotional hearing you say this.

Jennifer: I’m not crying today. I’m not crying today because I feel like every time I see you I’m like, “Lindsay, you know you changed my life, right?”

Lindsay: It’s my turn to cry. It’s fine. I’m not crying, you’re crying. I love that. And I love you. And I’m so grateful that you shared that.

Jennifer: Yeah, it’s powerful. And what you do is so powerful.

Lindsay: Thank you. I’m going to text you when I need to hear that. Because some days I’m like, “Is it working?” I don’t even know.

Jennifer: Look, I’ll be your backup reinforcement. I will remind you, all good.

Lindsay: Love it. I always say that Harper, my nine year old, is like my hype girl. So maybe you just are my hype girl in my business.

Jennifer: I am honored. I will be that.

Lindsay: I love it. Okay, anyone that is listening, that is like, “I have to work with Jennifer. I need to stop dieting, that is on my goal list.” Tell them how you work with your clients. What are your offers? Where can they find you? Anything you want to say.

Jennifer: All the fun stuff.

Lindsay: That’s right.

Jennifer: Well, if you’re a woman and you know that you are on the weight loss struggle bus and you’re just ready to do something different and you want to learn how to lose weight forever, you can go find me at And I have a free opt-in which is actually a five part video series and weight loss guide. Which will introduce you to my version of the stop dieting forever process.

It is not action focused. It is really learning how to rewire your brain so you can become the woman who thinks like the person who weighs your goal weight. Once you can do that, then you don’t have to worry about ever gaining weight back after you lose it.

Lindsay: So fun. What I will say about that, I’m just going to give you like a huge plug. When I was just with you in Cabo, one thing I noticed because I know that that’s your niche, is how you don’t restrict yourself. I mean, I’m obviously not there for all of the decisions, but we had drinks together, you’re eating all the amazing food, right?

Whatever you’re doing, because you also look smokin hot. So whatever it is, I just think it’s important for people to know that because I think especially, now most of the people of course listening here are probably coaches, but we always go straight, or at least my brain does, straight to like, “What are all the things I’m going to have to give up?”

Jennifer: Yeah, we automatically think restriction.

Lindsay: Yep.

Jennifer: So I talk about my process a lot in the podcast. I do have a podcast called Stop Dieting Forever with Jennifer Dent Brown.

Lindsay: I love it. We will link that. We will link all of these things in my show notes, on my website. All the links to Jennifer, you can find them there.

Jennifer: Yeah, and I love working with coaches. Because the making money brain is very similar to the weight loss brain.

Lindsay: Yes.

Jennifer: How you do one thing is how you do everything.

Lindsay: And now did you already say this, do you only work with group clients or do you take one on one clients as well?

Jennifer: So I do a little bit of both. I have a 30 day bootcamp, it’s called Lose your Next 10 Pounds Without Dieting, 30 day boot camp. The next one is going to be in October.

So once you’re go through the boot camp you learn my foundation process. Then you have an opportunity to join the membership. And if you want to continue on with one on one coaching, you can contact me and if I have spaces available, we will do it.

Lindsay: That’s fun, I bet you’re not going to have any after this. Everyone’s going to love you.

Jennifer: I hope so. That is the goal.

Lindsay: I love it. I love you. I love your business. I love everything

Jennifer: Thank you Lindsay. And you know I love you.

Lindsay: Did we cover it all? Is there anything else? Just love fest, everybody already signed off, I’m sure, but it’s fine.

Jennifer: It’s just us.

Lindsay: Is there anything else you want to say before we go?

Jennifer: No, I think I’m all good.

Lindsay: All right. Well, thank you so much.

Jennifer: Thank you.

Thanks for listening to this episode of Mastering Coaching Skills. If you want to learn more about my work, come visit me at That’s Lindsay with an A, see you next week.

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I am a master certified coach, with certifications through the Institute for Equity-Centered Coaching and The Life Coach School.

I turn your good coaching into a confidently great coaching experience and let your brilliance shine.

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